Posts Tagged ‘Heresy’

Is Faith nothing more than a positive attitude?   This quote comes from Facebook, a comment someone I know put up on their Facebook.

 This is what John Hagee teaches.

 John Hagee Ministries · he received 321,383 like for this statement

John Hagee

John Hagee

FAITH IS HAVING A POSITIVE ATTITUDE ABOUT WHAT YOU CAN DO AND NOT WORRYING AT ALL ABOUT WHAT YOU CAN’T DO. (emphasis mine)

 It seems despite almost 60 responses to this comment.  The majority bar one agreed with him.  A sad state when the church has absolutely no idea what FAITH is and what it is not.   Here is one quote from a women who definitely had no idea. 

  W.R.FloresWow! It doesn’t get more clearer than that! Thank you, Pastor!!

I have to admit I just cannot commend this woman for her response, and she was just one of almost 60 people.  Many of which said “Amen” to John Hagee statement

Now out of those 60 just one man responded Biblically and honestly. 

FarrierI hate to disagree…and its a first on this page, but No, I’m sorry pastor, FAITH is not merely maintaing a positive attitude despite your limitations, FAITH is having FULL confidence in God to do all things through you and not worrying about the need for your individual effort, or questioning God’s timing by your definition of results.”

I stand to commend and applaud that at least one person was willing and able to define the truth on Biblical Faith.  What makes this so serious is that merely having a positive attitude cannot keep you from Hell but faith in God will. 

Notice how many LIKES he got for that comment.  Is that 321, 363 potential souls on their way to a lost eternity and only ONE gave the right response.  How many will follow this man who is on record as rejecting Christ as the messiah is anyone’s guess.  But personally this is serious stuff.  When the people who call themselves Christians can no longer define what Biblical faith is , we know we have a problem today.

 

In a recent debate on the issue of Joyce Meyers, the argument went something like this:

“But people are getting saved through her ministry”

The idea being that if Joyce and her fellow prosperity teachers are saving souls they cant be that bad.   I have a friend whose father in Law went to a Benny Hinn crusade and went forward to be saved.  After that they would not hear anything bad about Benny. 

NOW IT A FAIR ENOUGH QUESTION IF THEY ARE WINNING CONVERTS SURELY THAT CAN’T BE BAD?

Now please notice that I have change the wording from actually being saved to winning converts, because numbers are not really a basis to determine if someone is genuine.  The appeal to converts does not in itself determine the message.  There is no doubt many cults including the rev Sun Moon of the unification church  and even Islam  all groupingboast in their numbers  as the principle basis that numbers somehow equals truth.   Yet we know their message is in no way genuine.

So the number game does not determine the message or the fruit.  Jesus had few followers at the end and yet his message and fruit was more than genuine.   Sadly it has become the principle debate that mega churches are automatically right simply because of their numbers.    We can’t go on that basis.  As scripture says Broad is the road that leads to destruction, and narrow is the road that leads to life.  The broad road is easy to find, but the narrow is so much harder to find, never mind squeeze through.

THE GOSPEL IS PREACHED FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS, SOME OF WHICH IS NOT ALWAYS OUT OF A GENUINE MOTIVE.

Phil 1: 16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds.

Just because someone preaches a gospel message:  Appears to use all the right terminology and even makes an altar call, is no guarantee they are the genuine article.  People have preached the gospel for many reasons.  Some of which have been for reasons altogether insincere.  Many have done so because there were dollar signs attached.   Such as with the case of Marjoe Gortner who for many years went on the preaching circuit, and accumulated vast sums of wealth.   He was brought up by his parents to be the boy preacher.  Many believed on him, followed him.  He preached and prayed for the sick and could speak in tongues as good as anyone.    Yet he is on record as never ever being a true believer.  He could say all the right things and make all the right moves, but was never the genuine article.   Yet how many bought into this mans message and dare I say anointing?  Just because a man claims he is anointed, does not mean he is?  In the end he did a final preaching tour with a camera team to expose just how easy people could be deceived.  Sadly many missed the lesson!!!!

 2 Peter 2: 16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man’s voice forbad the madness of the prophet

BUT WHAT IF A PERSON GETS SAVED THROUGH A FALSE TEACHER?

Balaam’s was rebuked by his ass and what the ass said was true.  Now did ass gather a following afterwards?  Just because a ass bore some fruit does not mean we should all follow the ass.  The ass may have been used once but the ass remained just an ass.    So someone may have been witness to by something someone said.  Still does not mean we follow the ass.    Plus and what makes this all the more important is the preacher is not the one who does the saving, God does.  Yet in listening to some you can’t help walk away with the thought that the preacher becomes the one who does.

There is an interesting line to point out here.  The messenger is still only the messenger.  A sign post on the road is still only a sign post, but he is never the vehicle that takes you to the end of the road.    So even if someone is convinced by an individual, like Joyce Meyers.  Joyce is not the one who saves, God alone saves the lost soul.  What many are actually pointing to is the fact that Copeland Osteen Meyers or the many others are actually doing is winning converts to themselves, rather than to the Lord.

IF NOT SAVED , THEN WHAT ARE THEY SAVED TO?

Heb 4: 2 For unto us was the gospelpreached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].

It would seem that in some conversation with people, it becomes clear that it is not a matter that people are being saved to know the Lord, But that they are being converted to a certain individual.  What happens is that the convert instead of running after God, spends their time running after the messenger.  When the messenger falls the converts fall away.  It may not always happen,  they may come through to a genuine path and therefore to a genuine faith.  But when trust is misplaced and these pillow prophets will often package their message in such as way that they place themselves central to their message.  That people inevitable follow the individual thinking they are following God.. 

IT’S ALL IN HOW THE MESSAGE IS PACKAGED

There is great subtly in the way the prosperity message is packaged.  There is almost a two tier lever of consciousness to their message.  Yet whilst many hear one level they will embrace both.  One is a very vocal top message that’s very positive.   This message is very comfortable to embrace, health peace financial stability, divine health and how to love oneself.

There is a lot what I call mixture, where both truth and error are all blended in together and it takes almost a blowtorch to separate the two.

But the core lever of the message which drives the top message is altogether prejudice against the truth of scripture.  Both are inevitably embraced without the realisation that the core message is poison and dangerous to the soul.  I have talked with a number of Prosperity believers who would argue blind that Copeland, Hagin and others did not teach a specific aspect of their message.  Yet in the continual conversation on the subject they would begin to mimic the very thing they denied previously.  It is both curious and alarming that the individuals do not see this reality.  It takes some persuasion before even they begin to see that the truth of the falseness of these teachers is actually coming out of their own mouths.

The final level is probably the worst in this regard that they both see believe and accept that what is being taught by these people is not accord with scripture.  It is almost impossible to reach them without God.  At this level the individuals are so persuaded, and their conscience has been so seared and hardened that it almost impossible to reach.    They know what they believe and could not care that the doctrine they pursue is error. 

To put is bluntly people are being brainwashed by this heresy.  Because this message is often repeated word for word, with only minor changes people are becoming subconsciously persuaded by it. Just as people are persuaded to buy the next new product on the market, so people are being persuaded in the same way.  The constant repetition of any product is eventually picked up by some consumer, so the message if listen to on a regular basis on Books TV and tape will eventually hit its mark.

I know of another dear friend who was involved in a church that embraced this heresy many years ago.  Whilst he knows that the prosperity teaching is wrong.  He totally rejects it as heresy.  Yet there are times he comes out with something that I can tell is from the prosperity Message.  Unless you are fully aware of why how and where you can miss the subtitle of this heresy, but once you see and grasp where it is wrong it sticks out like a boulder. 

UCMINISTRIES :  The following is a testimony of someone who was in the Word of faith movement and saw things from the inside.  His concerns eventually drew him out of this movement.  The testimony is not mine and therefore I can’t take credit for it.   Please read this testimony with an open mind and aSk yourself what really did go on with Kenneth Hagin?

AFTER I RETURNED HOME FROM MICHIGAN, MY DOUBTS ABOUT KENNETH HAGIN, HIS TEACHINGS, AND HIS VISIONS BEGAN TO SWIRL AROUND IN MY HEAD LIKE A HURRICANE. I ALREADY HAVE A TOUCH OF OBSESSIVE, COMPULSIVE BEHAVIOR CONCERNING RELIGION, SO AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, THESE DOUBTS REALLY GOT A HOLD OF ME.

FIRST, LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT A STRANGE EXPERIENCE THAT I HAD SHORTLY AFTER WE HAD BOUGHT THE CHURCH PROPERTY AND MOVED OUR OFFICES INTO THE GUEST HOUSE. I HAD BEEN SURFING THE WEB, LOOKING UP KENNETH HAGIN ON GOOGLE, AS I FREQUENTLY DID. I WAS ALWAYS LOOKING FOR NEW SERMONS, STORIES OR BITS OF INFORMATION ABOUT HIM.

NOW ANYONE THAT HAS EVER GOOGLED KENNETH HAGIN WILL FIND OUT IN A HURRY THAT THERE ARE LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF BLOGS, WEB SITES, VIDEOS, YOU TUBES AND SUCH THAT ATTACK HIM AND HIS TEACHING, BOTH PERSONALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY. THESE ARTICLES HAD ALWAYS GREATLY BOTHERED ME AND I WOULD ALWAYS TRY TO AVOID THEM. BUT ONE AFTERNOON I STARTED READING THEM.

I GOT A SICK, TWISTED, AWFUL FEELING IN MY STOMACH. I BECAME UPSET. ALL OF THESE THEOLOGIANS, EXPERTS, WRITERS, MINISTERS AND FORMER WORD OF FAITH PEOPLE WERE SHOOTING ALL KINDS OF HOLES IN BOTH HAGIN’S TEACHINGS AND TESTIMONIES. THIS REALLY BOTHERED ME. MOST EVERYTHING THAT I BELIEVED ABOUT GOD AND THE BIBLE HAD BEEN INFLUENCED BY KENNETH HAGINS TEACHINGS.

THEN SUDDENLY A THOUGHT FLASHED THROUGH MY MIND: “ONE DAY YOU WILL ATTACK KENNETH HAGIN’S TEACHING MORE THAN ANY OF THESE PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET”. OF COURSE I DISMISSED THIS AS THE DEVIL. BUT I REMEMBERED IT. IT SCARED ME. WAS IT THE VOICE OF GOD? WAS IT MY CONFUSION SPEAKING? MY SUBCONSCIOUS? I HAVE NO IDEA!

I BEGAN TO ASK GOD TO OPEN MY EYES IF I WAS IN DECEPTION. WAS KENNETH HAGIN A TRUE PROPHET OF GOD? DID HE REALLY MEET JESUS FACE TO FACE IN EIGHT SEPERATE TEACHING VISIONS? DID KENNETH HAGIN REALLY VISIT JESUS UP IN FRONT OF THE THRONE ROOM OF GOD ALMIGHTY? DID JESUS CHRIST REALLY LAY HIS HANDS ON KENNETH HAGIN TO GIVE HIM A SPECIAL HEALING ANOINTING? DOD ANGELS REALLY APPEAR TO HIM? HAD KENNETH HAGIN REALLY HEARD THE AUDIBLE VOICE OF GOD ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS?

HAD I EVER SEEN KENNETH HAGIN HEAL ANYONE? HAD I EVER SEEN HIM PREFORM A REAL MIRACLE? KENNETH HAGIN HAD ALWAYS TESTIFIED THAT HE HAD BEEN BORN WITH A DEFORMED HEART AND A RARE INCURABLE BLOOD DISEASE, AND THAT HE WAS HEALED BY ACTING ON MARK 11:24 AFTER BEING TAUGHT HOW TO OPERATE IN FAITH BY JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF. BUT HAD I EVER EVEN HEARD OF THE TRUE DIAGNOSIS AND NAME OF THE DISEASE?

HAD I EVER SEEN MEDICAL REPORTS OR DOCTORS TESTIMONY ABOUT THIS HEALING MIRACLE? WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THE BLOOD DISEASE? HE HAD SAID THAT HIS BLOOD WAS WATERY AND ORANGE. WHAT WAS WRONG WITH HIM? HAD I EVER HEARD ANY EYE WITNESSES TESTIFY TO THIS MIRACLE? ANY DOCTORS? ANY PUBLISHED MEDICAL DOCUMENTATION? NO!

WHAT ABOUT THE PLAGIARISM CHARGES AND DENIALS? IT WAS AND IS A KNOWN FACT THAT KENNETH HAGIN PLAGIARIZED THE NEW AGE WRITINGS OF EW KENYON AND CLAIMED TO HAVE RECEIVED THEM FROM THE SPIRIT OF GOD. I KNOW THAT HE WAS SUED BY KENYON’S DAUGHTER OVER THIS, AND THAT THEY SETTLED OUT OF COURT, BUT WHY DID HAGIN NEVER CLEAR THIS UP PUBLICLY? I HAD SEEN THE SIDE BY SIDE EVIDENCE MANY TIMES. HAD KENNETH HAGIN OUT RIGHT LIED?

WHAT ABOUT KENNETH HAGIN’S CLAIMS TO HAVE WALKED IN DIVINE HEALTH AND NEVER BEING SICK? I HAD A FRIEND THAT WAS A PHARMACY TECH AT ST. FRANCIS HOSPITAL IN TUKLSA, THAT WAS ALSO A FELLOW RHEMA GRAD. HE TOLD ME THAT HE HAD FILLED KENNETH HAGIN’S HEART MEDICINE FOR YEARS AT THE PHARMACY. SO, WAS KENNETH HAGIN BEING MISLEADING IN HIS TEACHING ABOUT WALKING IN DIVINE HEALTH?

I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT KENNETH HAGIN’S WIFE WAS TREATED FOR CANCER FOR YEARS. WHY DIDN’T THAT SPECIAL HEALING ANOINTING WORK FOR HER? WHY HAD I NOT SEEN ANY HEALINGS AND MIRACLES IN ANY OF THE HUNDREDS OF SERVICES AND CLASSES THAT I ATTENDED FOR FOURTEEN YEARS? WHY WOULDN’T KENNETH HAGIN TALK TO ME AND CONI AFTER OUR DAUGHTER JENNIFER DIED OF A BRAIN TUMOR? WHY DID SO MANY CLOSE ASSOCIATES AND FAMILY MEMBERS OF KENNETH HAGIN GOT CANCER AND DIE JUST LIKE REGUALR FOLKS IF HAGIN HAD THIS SPECIAL ANOINTING?

THE QUESTIONS WERE SWIRLING, I COULD NOT SLEEP, AND NO ONE AT RHEMA WOULD ANSWER MY QUESTIONS.

Recently News has spread that Todd Bentley was in Britain preaching.  It took me a little while to track down what church in Wales he was visiting.  Now we have thanks to Todd Bentley own face book site.  The church was pastor by Robert and Helen King  and is called TWO LOCKS CHURCH.

The church advertises itself :

Two Locks Church is Independent, Christ-centred, Bible-based, and charismatic. Every Sunday we have people from all different walks of life and of different nationalities meeting in harmony to celebrate Christ and his Kingdom.

One of the main feature along with a puppet ministry is a “TACF Soaking Centre.

Mr and Mrs King with Mr and Mrs Bentley

SOAKING  Is just a christianised form of  Transcendental Meditation, which is also popular with the Todd Bentley.

Affiliations & links: Evangelical Alliance, Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship .  (This description just about says it all.)

On its blog where some of the pastors teaching Robert makes this statement:

God has given us His faith, you either have it or you don’t and when we become disciples of Him He gives us His faith.  There is never a day when we are faithless as the faith He put on the inside of us doesn’t come and go! We can step out in faith every day, it’s not about how we feel, it’s about what He has given us…..  This is not about ‘my faith’ it’s about ‘His faith’ living in me….For we walk by faith, not by sight. 2 Corinthians 5:7 (NKJV)

Is a Christian’s faith always alive?  James 2:17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. (NKJV)  In other words, it doesn’t do anything if we don’t use it!  Jesus said, ‘You will lay hands on the sick and they will recover!’ But if we don’t lay hands on the sick then nothing will happen!  

Confess this truth out loud now, ‘He’s given me His faith and His faith works’”

 The terminology of receiving “Gods faith” is usually reminiscent of word of Faith teachings so common with Kenneth Hagin .    God himself does not need faith.  As faith means trusting in someone, who is God going to put his trust in?  God can impart faith to the believer to help us have faith in God, but God himself does not need faith.  Then there is the confessing “this truth” Also very reminiscent of Word of Faith.  Where those who confess believe they will possess.  In the end it is not God they put their trust in but the words they confess.   By making and speaking the right words you will create your own reality.  However that is nothing more than New Age witchcraft.  Words spoken in the right way is nothing more than reciting a spell. 

It has been my understanding that Todd has been gravitating towards Kenneth Hagin’s  Occult teachings for some time.  This has now been proven by his latest teaching called:

THE POWER OF PROPHETIC DECREES

As you read a part of Todd’s Article, you will soon notice that it’s full of typical buzz words which the prosperity teachers are noted for.

This is a two-part teaching entitled, The Power of Prophetic Decrees. Part 1 will help you understand why God gives us prophetic words, visions, and revelations, and examines and uncovers those things that hinder the fulfillment of God’s prophetic word in our lives. Many are missing the mark of their calling, and the words that have come to us from God remain unfulfilled. Next week’s Part 2 teaching will continue with the quest for success in appropriating what God has promised us. We’ll learn how to war for our words, and how we can effectively shoot prophetic arrows into the heavens to “scatter the demonic cohorts.”

How many prophetic promises and words spoken over your life have you yet to see birthed? Every believer has prophetic promises from heaven whether God has revealed something that we would accomplish for Him, something that we would become, or something that we would see Him do in our lifetime. Prophetic words are authoritative words that Scripture says we would “do well to pay attention to” (2 Peter 1:19).

Countless believers have waited years to realize the fulfillment of prophetic words spoken over them, or revelations from visions or dreams. Do you ever wonder what to do with them, how to act upon them, or how to ensure the fulfillment of them in your life or ministry? How do we bring the words of the Lord to pass? What hinders the fulfillment of them?

Recently, the Lord showed me that through our prophetic decrees, He also releases angels to battle the forces of the enemy to bring us what is rightfully ours! That’s part of their job description!

I hope to give some insight in this teaching on how you can make prophetic decrees and proclamations into the heavens, which will hasten and bring to pass the Word of the Lord. I want you to understand your responsibility with God-given promises and visions and how you can partner with God to realize your destiny.

Prophetic words and promises are personal, specific to our lives as individuals, our families, or our ministries. They may also be intended for cities, regions, peoples, and nations. They are always in line with the Word, the Bible right from Genesis through to Revelation. However, I want to focus primarily on those words that God has given to us personally, those rhema words. Rhema words and God’s Word are a powerful combination that can activate our divine destiny

>>>IT’S OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO BIRTH HIS WORD<<<<

>>>LET IT BE TO ME ACCORDING TO YOUR WORD<<<<

Know your authority, and be vigilant. Even Mary understood this principle regarding prophetic words. After her prophetic word from the angel she responded and prophetically decreed, “Let it be to me according to your word” (Luke 1:38). She lined herself up with the Word from heaven, pulled it out of the spiritual realm into existence, and birthed it.

In Him Todd Bentley Fresh Fire USA

The major flaw with Kenneth Hagin was his teachings on THE RHEMA WORD.  Like many false teachers who want to introduce extra Biblical teachings he had to separate the Bible (logos) written word for the NEW PROPHETIC WORD of Kenneth Hagin.  Thus he elevated the word  Rhema and with it his teachings above the Bible.  Thus the bible itself was judged according to his revelation and not the other way round.   

For a Further study on the RHEMA  and how the New testament writers used  them  click here. or go over to my Box account and scroll down until you see the article on the truth about the rhema  word.

What many do not realise is that Rhema and Logos where used interchangeable throughout the New Testament and applied to both the written and spoken word of God.  The New Testament writers did not make any separation in how both those words were used. 

For many who feel the need to go around making decrees or a Positive confession about their healings.  There are plenty of grave yards full of people who confessed but never possessed.  But the saddest part was the lies they told in confessing their healings when they were never healed. 

It looks like both Todd Bentley and Two Locks Church have a lot more of a connection than just being charismatic. We must also remind ourselves that despite all his bold confession of prophetic decrees his own marriage failed.  I suspect he had no intention of saving it either.  What we must remember is that Todd Bentley is a blatant adulterer and now parades his adultery everywhere he goes

Churches are NOW  supposed to look the other way and say AMEN and BLESS YOU!!!!.  It only shows how far the church has slipped and prostituted itself.  Any Pastor with an ounce of integrity would send this pimp packing.   The sad state of the charismatic movement today is the ever-growing desperation for signs and wonder.  Such is the desperation that just about anything and everything is tolerated.   I fear that this desperation will set many up for an end time deception.  The Bible clearly warns us and yet today many ignore that warning at their own peril.  This drive for signs and wonders has become nothing more than an addiction, and men like Bentley feed it.   Like all addictions eventually people will not bother where they get their highs from, so long as they get their weekly fix

There may be some who will say  “ But he has repented “ ,  but I would say how did he show his repentance?

Go back to his wife and ask forgiveness?  NO.   He simply carried on with his adultery, divorced his wife and married his mistress.  That’s not repentance.  To repent is to change direction.  Todd never changed direction.  In the end he got exactly what he wanted.   Repentance is more than simply saying sorry and carrying on regardless.  What many saw with Todd and Rick Joyner famous video chats was nothing more than a sham of a show piece.  Far too many people had invested too much money, time and predictions to simply let Todd simply disappear from the scene.

The one thing we can be certain of is that those who desire to get into bed with the Todd Bentley’s of this world is that they  have no love for the truth,  and no love  for God,

Rick warren says “God never gives up on you, so you should never give up on you.”

Mar 8: 34 And when he had called the people [unto him] with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me

Gal 2: 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Phi 3: 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ
Jesus

Salvation is attained when we come to the realisation that we cannot attain salvation through our own efforts.  Thus we cry out for deliverance.    Nowhere does it say that God never gives up on the sinner , therefore we should not either.  This is humanism, but it certainly is not Biblical.  God knows our frailty, our weakness, and our sins.  If we could attain then Jesus would not have been sent.

Victory is not living in my own strength  but in the strength and righteousness of another.  It is NO longer I liveth but Christ that liveth in me.  The cross was never about my strength but his.  Never about digging deeper into my resources but his.  The gospel has always been the good news and Jesus is that news.  It is not about looking to me but unto Jesus who is the author and finisher of our faith. (hebr 12: 1)

When we finally realise that we cant do it, throw up our hands in true surrender to God. That
is when God is more than able to move.

This comes from someone who likes to refer to himself as a minister. This is his defence of the book of Enoch and the subject that the sons of God were fallen angels. His response is almost typical full of “IF”, “BUT”, “POSSIBLY”, attitude.

I don’t hold Enoch to be scripture so it’s not really something I worry about. However it does reflect that the belief in angels having sex with women and creating hybrid offspring dates back to long before Christ. Parts of the Book of Enoch were in the Septuagint, but not the whole book in it’s current form. People make a big deal about skeletons as if stuff can’t be hidden or destroyed. The Catholic Church destroyed lots of stuff during their reign. We know the governments of the world hide stuff all the time. How would giants help their case for evolution? It wouldn’t. With that said, I asked some of these researches that go overboard to show me a reference to a 36ft. tall pre-flood giant and so far nothing… I asked for the reference because some of them like to make fools of them selves in an attempt to be sarcastic by saying “I don’t see 36ft. tall giants walking around like they were before the flood.” The fact is, no where in the Bible does it mention 36ft. tall giants. As you’ve correctly stated, 13.5 feet is the biggest number the Bible gives. However it does refer to the Amorites being as tall as the cedars, and that was post flood. We also have to take into account that the flood destroyed tons of stuff and altered natural formation… with that said, I don’t think they were 450 ft. tall. What I think probably happened is that people tampered with the translation in order to make it sound non-credible. Not really something I’ve spent a lot of time on. What I can say for a fact is that Goliath was 9.9′ tall and Og was at least 13.5′ tall. Beyond that I don’t know how big they got. When the supernatural is involved almost anything is possible.

 This ministers opening salvo should make any Christian very concerned. “I don’t hold Enoch to be scripture so it’s not really something I worry about”.  If this man was a genuine believer he would be concerned.  The fact that the Book of Enoch contradicts the testimony of the scripture means we should reject it as false.  But this minister in his efforts to support some of these wild claims is prepared to cling to this book.  His unbelief goes on to say “it does reflect that the belief in angels having sex with women and creating hybrid offspring”,  So he is saying even thought it contradict scripture and is not inspired he will choose to believe in it.  Further more he rejects the obvious discrepancies.  The ideas of giants which are 36 feet tall are simply ignored as exaggeration.  Yet even with this contradiction he wants people to embrace this heretical book.  The terrible issue is that if you just happened to be on the tall side then your DNA has been tampered with by demons.  This is nothing but the height of ignorance towards people who are tall.  I know Christians who lead worship and are very tall.  Their parents were Christians. Yet to imply that demons, contrary to scripture had sex with a Christian woman. What an indictment on anyone with a tall child. Plus where are these very very tall giants today, they are nowhere to be found.

In order to get around the obvious embarrassing questions concerning the high of these giants, his response is:  “I think probably happened is that people tampered with the translation in order to make it sound non-credible” 

Now if the book has been tampered with as he claims, who is too say that the whole book is just one made up fabricated piece of rubbish.  The fact that he wants people to believe in the Book, and yet simply overlook the obvious falsehoods in the book is the height of incredible foolishness.  When all else fails he throws in the supernatural card “When the supernatural is involved almost anything is possible.”  As if we should be impressed.  This is still the “If but maybe possible”  A giant leap of the imagination demanding that people should be gullible enough to embrace these fantasies.

HOW DID ABEL SACRIFICED.?

 Gen 4:4   And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

Hbr 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Book of Enoch, chapter 69:4-6And the third was named Gadreel: he it is who showed the children of men all the blows of death, and he led astray Eve, and showed [the weapons of death to the sons of men] the shield and the coat of mail, and the sword for battle, and all the weapons.

 Now according to the book of Enoch demons gave man the ability to kill, so where does Abel get his wisdom from when he sacrificed a sheep.    If he got it from demons then his ability to sacrifice his sheep was directly based upon the occult (demons).  So why would God then recomend Abels sacrifice  if the wisdom came from demons?

WHAT IS WRITTEN IS NOW FORBIDDEN?

We read in the Book of Enoch, chapter 69:8-12

“8 …And the fourth was named Penemue: he taught the 9 children of men the bitter and the sweet, and he taught them all the secrets of their wisdom. And he instructed mankind in writing with ink and paper, and thereby many sinned from eternity to 10 eternity and until this day. For men were not created for such a purpose, to give confirmation 11 to their good faith with pen and ink. For men were created exactly like the angels, to the intent that they should continue pure and righteous, and death, which destroys everything, could not have taken hold of them, but through this their knowledge they are perishing, and through this power 12 it is consuming me.”

“What … man’s wisdom came from a demon named Penemue? That’s crazy! Did ink and paper cause the fall of the human race? Whoa … I’d better throw all my fine-point pens away immediately! It was Adam’s sin that brought sin into the world (Romans 5:12); not evil literature. Mankind is inherently evil of himself, prone to the works of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21). Men and women sin because they are sinners! (Romans 3:10,23). Although demons definitely influence mankind to do evil, the ultimate decision is OURS. The Devil cannot force anyone to sin. People need to stop blaming demons and the Devil for their sins, and start looking into the mirror. God has promised to help His children live right… “There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it” (1st Corinthians 10:13). No excuses”

men were created exactly like the angels” Where in the Bible are we told that that men were created in the image of angels.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

The fact that man was not created “exactly” like the angels, but in the image of God. So again we have this contradiction, and yet we are expected to take this book as being historical.

DEMONIC COPULATION WITH COWS.

 Enoch 86.3-4  And, again, I saw in the vision and looked up at Heaven, and behold, I saw many stars, how they came down, and were thrown down from Heaven to that first star, and fell amongst those heifers and bulls. They were with them pasturing amongst them.  And I looked at them and saw, and behold, all of them let out their private parts, like horses, and began to mount the cows of the bulls. And they all became pregnant and bore elephants, camels, and asses.

Suddenly we have angels not just having sex with women but also animals (cows) which then brought forth “ elephants, camels, and donkeys” So now animals which obviously survived the flood and were even taken onto the ark were the product of demonic copulation.  Now if God intended to destroy this demonic copulation then it would seem he not just failed but he also encouraged the continuation by allowing them onto Noah’s ark. Now can you see the absolute stupidity of believing such tripe?  Can we honestly believe that elephants camels and donkeys came because of demonic copulation?

Not only does this go against the Biblical order that every creature would reproduce after its own kind. We somehow are to believe that angels were able to circumvent Gods divine order and God stands back powerless to stop it.  Then GOD goes out and punishes those who were the victims of such crimes.   This would present us with a God who is a vindictive inept brute that punished victims of someone else’s disobedience.

 Now even worse is written in the book of Enoch that at times I am not even sure the drivel which is written is even readable

Chapter 89 starts talking about a white bullock that becomes a man who made for himself a large vessel, who lived in this vessel with three other  bullocks.  I can only presume they are talking about Noah here.  But Noah was never an animal. Now we are told that the elephant’s camels and donkeys  (asses) were “ALL” drowned in the flood, which makes it even stranger that we see such animals today.  Now we are then told that these  “bullocks came out of this vessel (ark) one was white , red and black. 

Enoch 89.10 And they began to beget wild animals and birds, so that there arose from them every kind of species: lions, tigers, wolves, dogs, hyenas, wild-boars, foxes, badgers, pigs, falcons, vultures, kites, eagles, and ravens. But amongst them was born a white bull.

This type of thinking may be more in line with some aborigional fork lore than any historical validity.  We are somehoe supposed to believe that Noah and his children physically produced all the animals that we know see, including those animals  which were the product of demonic copulation.

Compare this with scripture.  We are told who and what went into the ark.

Gen 7: 7, 9 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons’ wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood. There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

Gen 7: 15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein [is] the breath of life.

This tells us that God took animals into the ark of ALL Flesh.  That would seem to discount animals being the product of demonic copulation.  It was these animals which emerged from the ark.  They certainly did not arise because Noah or his family physically  birthed them.

It should be noticed that righteousness is not even mentioned in Enoch 89.   We are simple told that a bullock became a man and lived with three other bullocks.  It should be noted that there were Noah , his wife, three sons and their wives and that makes “8”.  So where does these three bullocks come into this story.  Again it would seem that the book of Enoch is at odds with scripture.

The notes that go with this are even more confusing. because they now say that the white bull was Abraham?

“The white bull at the end of 89.10 is Abraham (possibly 2166 – 1991 BC). At 89.11 there is Abraham’s son Ishmael (2080 BC) the wild ass, and Isaac (2066 BC) the white bull.  Isaac has a wild boar, Esau, and a white sheep that is Jacob (2006 BC). At the end of 89.12 Jacob has twelve sons – the patriarchs of the 12 tribes. At 89.13 Joseph is sold to the Ishmaelites or Midianites (asses) and then (1898 BC) to the Egyptians (wolves), see also Genesis 37.25 and 39.1″

But this simply does not fit the story line that is expounded in Enoch 89.10- and begeting all these animals .  Not even Abraham could take that title. As far as I can see someone is making things up as they go along.  Basically they have absolutly No idea what it all means , so shove something in and maybe the more guliable among us will believe it.

 We can only imagine that anyone who claims to be a minister teaching such confusion must be very confused himself.  I would also go so far as to say that even his own respose undermines his position.

It took me a few seconds to get into this video, but it is worth while listening.  It is a great exposure of John Crowder.