Posts Tagged ‘Freedom’

WHY MOSLEMS ARE LEAVING ISLAM

Posted: December 23, 2013 in Islam
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WHY MOSLEMS ARE LEAVING ISLAM by Richard Thornhill

Why Muslims are leaving Islam ?
BY : Nuradiin Jimaleh / Atlanta GA. U.S.A

Why New Muslims are leaving Islam in millions? which is unprecedented in the Islamic History . The reason is most of these New converts to Islam are ignorant about the true face of islam prior to their convert , truely they are victims of SugarCoated Islam. From my observation majority of ex-muslims either become Atheists/Agnostics/FreeThinkers or become Christians and even a few of them embraces Hinduism and Buddhism

Prof ILyas Ba Yunus is a muslim researcher who lives in the U.S he found out 75% of New Muslims are leaving Islam in a few years.

Hear this Clip : http://www.radioislam.com/_asx/PublicAffairs/whynewmleave.asx or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE7MNqj7uss&feature=related

(A Research by Prof. Ilyas Ba Yunus)
How can Islam be the fastest growing religion in the world while it is losing millions of its members ? Can the Muslims and those “Useful Idiot” Western Magazines such as CNN, USA Today prove statistically that Islam is fastest growing religion based on conversions ?

Most of us know people who are just waiting to be SAVED from Islam, but they are still so afraid of it. I know people whose whole lives are destroyed by Islam and they know it, but they can’t come face to face with it beacuse they are afraid. It’s really a very difficult thing to release yourself from all the fear and terror of Islam. It is a cult. It’s not an easy thing to do. People need support, they need groups. They need to feel that they are not alone. Here are some of the recent News about Muslims leave Islam in droves and embrace other religions and ideologies which are compatible with Golden rule, Humanity

2 million ethnic Muslims in Russia leave islam:

http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=513

in every year 6 million African muslims convert to Christianity or Atheisam .
Shiekh Ahmed Katani : “In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Ever year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity. These numbers are very large indeed”.

http://www.aljazeera.net/programs/shareea/articles/2000/12/12-12-6.htm
For English Translation : http://www.formermuslims.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=972

http://somalifreethinkers.blogspot.com/2010/09/why-muslims-are-leaving-islam.html

A former member of the infamous Westboro Baptist Church reveals for the first time how her life has changed since she escaped from their clutches. Four years ago the world saw Libby Phelps picketing Obama Inauguration and taking part in anti Gay and Anti Semitic protests.  She never had a haircut and was unable to travel anywhere other than the USA. article-2269567-17386A2C000005DC-289_306x423.jpg

 We sometimes forget that those who become the first victims to any cult are those who are held within its clutches.  Fear of the world and everything outside keeps many from fleeing.   It can be a strange symptom even within any closed environment that may not even be a cult.  The simple fact that you become isolated from the community in general can lead to an irrational fear of those who are living outside.  Such a fear may seem or appear justified on the surface but is really irrational. Yes the world is not always a nice place but neither is the fear that can exist in an isolated community locked away from the outside. We are to be in the world even if we are not of this world.  The strange effect is that everyone on the outside can be perceived as some enemy or ogre just waiting to pounce and rip ones inners out.  The boogeyman of child hood fears resurrected.  I remember once being in Bible College and it was not a cult.  I came back of holiday to be told that the place had intruders.  I remember lying in bed one night fearing that someone would try to get through my bed room window.  The fear for real, the possibilities were real.  But I choose to defeat that fear because my God was bigger than my fears. I quickly fell asleep soon afterwards. Fear can be conquered and I never had another sleepless night.    

Now age 29, Libby Phelps Alvarez after fleeing the church, is finding peace with her new life. But walking away from everything she’d ever known, including praying for homosexual, Jewish and Chinese people to die, wasn’t easy, she told the Kansas City Star: ‘That first year, there would be days it would hit me really hard.’

Mrs Phelps Alvarez is the granddaughter of Fred Waldron Phelps, Sr., the founder and pastor of the Westboro Baptist Church – an American independent Baptist church known for its extreme ideologies.  The group would often be found picketing funerals of American soldiers and just about anywhere where they would be noticed.

Often we see the headlines that the church has decided to picket some funeral somewhere or other, But rarely do we hear news about those who have fled this cult.  News which can give hope to others who may have a desire to leave but fear holds them back.  There is no easy answer to leaving, but what can say is that there is HOPE.  There are many emotional complexities about leaving friends and especially family who are still under the influence of a cult.  But with Hope comes possibilities.  With possibilities comes a new freedom.    She is not alone in getting out, as her brother Josh escaped two years before she did, which might have been a precursor to encouraging her to leave.   

This is libby’s story and if you are in a cult like the Westbro Baptist remember there is life outside.

It was after church members confronted her about a bikini she had worn during a family vacation that she decided to follow her brother lead.

She knew how she was supposed to reply to their complaints, she said, ‘Apologize, ask forgiveness, and assure the members she would never wear a bikini again’. But unable to repent for something she didn’t believe to be wrong, she said she fled.

When she left, she had a car, a small amount of money and nothing else. She was able to save up for her own apartment lease thanks to her boss, who let her stay with her for four months.

Estranged from her family, Mrs Phelps Alvarez now lives in Lawrence not far from the University of Kansas campus with her newlywed husband, Logan. 

Although it is just 30 minutes from where she grew up, she is unable to speak to her cousin, Megan, or mother, and she says she still lies in bed sometimes thinking about, and mourning the fact that she will never again be able to speak to them.

But without the constraints of the church, she quickly began to branch out, experiencing things that had been forbidden to her for 25 years.

She went out with her boss to a bar for the first time, to a music concert, to the hairdresser, and she even got her ears pierced – ‘another big no no in the church,’ she said.

It was when she was shopping at Urban Outfitters in Lawrence that she bumped into a former physical therapy patient, Logan – also a member of the church.

He bought her flowers, which turned into a date – and it didn’t take long for her to tell him who her family was and that if he wanted, she would offer him an out; a chance to cut and run.

To Libby enjoy your new life

To Libby enjoy your new life

Within four months, Logan proposed, and the newlyweds have since traveled the world together.

‘No one is allowed to leave the country while at WBC,’ she writes on her Facebook. But together, the couple have been to England, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Italy, Switzerland, and France.

After she escaped, she accepted an interview request by 96.5 The Buzz in Kansas. The radio host delicately asked her what the craziest thing that church members had ever made her do. She replied: ‘To pray for people to die.’

The church is actively involved in actions against gay people, and in addition to conducting anti-gay protests at military funerals, the organization pickets other celebrity funerals and public events that are likely to get it media attention.

Protests against Judaism are also prevalent, and the church’s website states: ‘The only true Jews are Christians. The rest of the people who claim to be Jews aren’t, and they are nothing more than typical, impenitent sinners… the vast majority of Jews support fags.’

Mrs Phelps Alvarez says she often thinks about her cousin Megan, who was her best friend and confidante, who she knows she will never see again unless she also leaves the church.

‘I would take her to Covent Garden in England and for ice cream and tea in London,’ Mrs Phelps Alvarez said.

‘And there was a place in Germany, the Hofbrauhaus, it’s really famous, there’s a brass band. And I know that Megan would love going on The Tube in England…’

‘I wish that she could experience the same things. Or that she would have the opportunity or the choice to experience the same things.’

Source : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2269567/I-pray-people-die-Woman-escaped-hate-cult-Westboro-Baptist-Church-finds-peace-new-life-freedom.html#ixzz2JdqnQqMN

I hope that if you are or were part of a cult please leave your experiences on how you got out.  There are many I believe held captive that truly want out.  But it is going to take a lot of encouragement.  They need to hear from others that life does not finish when one gets out.

Artist depiction of the New Jerusalem.

Rev 21: 2

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband

So this will be a wondrous city that will never perish or decay.

There has always been one city that seems to have captured the heart of both man and God and that city is Jerusalem.  However there is promised another city a “NEW” City called the New Jerusalem.  What was started in a garden called Eden finished in a metropolis called Jerusalem.

We are given its measurements.  I post what one web site worked it out.

The Apostle John, “carried away in the spirit” while on Patmos, witnessed “the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.” (Revelation 21:2). He made various observations concerning this structure; for the purposes of the study in hand, one key verse emerges: 

“The city lieth four-square, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.”(Revelation 21:16)  

This, then, is the “Father’s house” which Jesus was referring to in His discourse with the disciples. The two particular features outlined here to take note of are: 

1) It is in the form of a perfect cube.

2) Its dimensions are:   12,000 furlongs by 12,000 furlongs by 12,000 furlongs.

Let us deal with the second observation first! Out with the measuring tape!

12,000 furlongs translates into 1,500 miles, and the ground-plan of the New Jerusalem accordingly works out as covering an amazing TWO AND A QUARTER MILLION SQUARE MILES!

But having said that, the city is also 1,500 miles high!

This means that its cubic capacity works out at the staggering figure of: 3.375 billion cubic miles!!!

Consider. If every single inhabitant was to be allocated half a cubic mile each (how does that compare with your current house and garden???), then the New Jerusalem would house on this basis some 27 billion persons!

Given a quarter of a cubic mile each (more than ample for a personal mansion in its own parkland, wouldn’t you say?), then the New Jerusalem would accommodate an almost unimaginable 216 billion people

No-one knows exactly how many humans have ever lived on this planet. Estimates of earth’s all-time population range from a low of around 45 billion to a high of around 125 billion, with many of the sounder estimates coming out at between 90 and 110 billion. A calculation based on 2002 figures arrived at a figure of 106 billion.

So even at a mere(!) quarter of a cubic mile each, the New Jerusalem would house every person who has ever existed twice over!

It can thus be clearly demonstrated that God has fully allowed for EVERYONE to inhabit His “house”, this quite incredible four-square city. We have the free will to decide whether or not we will live there ourselves; the tragic fact is that the many millions who reject God’s plan of redemption through the Cross of Jesus Christ will never get to see “the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.” (1 Corinthians 2:9). The Lord offers you one of His “many mansions” – no mortgage required! The decision is yours. 

Rev 7: 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

WE CANNOT BE NUMBERED!  WHEN MANY HAVE BELIEVED THAT THEY STOOD ALONE AS ELIJAH DID,  REMEMBER ON THAT DAY WE BECOME THE MAJORITY.

THIS ALONE SHOULD BLOW YOUR MIND RIGHT OUT OF ITS SOCKET.

 Rev 21: 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.

 Some people see this city as sitting above the planet whilst others see it a sitting on the planet.  The truth we are not told.  But we can gather a few bits of information about this city.

 In the garden God would walk with Adam in the cool of the day.  But in the New Jerusalem he will be our abiding light.  Which means his prescience will be there continually overshadowing us.  In the garden there was a sense of innocence, in the city there is a maturity.   What started in the garden becomes a cosmopolitan city giving full expression to those who inhabit that city.  This will be a busy city which will give full expression to the nature of God, a redeemed humanity. 

 This will be a holy City

This will be a city of light

This will be a city that never sleeps

This will be a city of peace and joyful expression

This will be a city of community where people will interact with each other.

This will be a city that will express the purity of God.

This city will be full of people for the redeemed shall walk its streets.

Love will be its currency

 There are many things we do today because God has placed that in our nature.  For example we seek to conform and fashion the planet to our will.  But we are as much at odds with it as it is with us.  Now instead of a world where the elements are at odds with everything and everyone, see a world that exists and everything is in harmony.  The war has ended and peace reigns across the planet, a new planet which has never been explored or abused.  This means there will be no need to dig for oil coal goal nickel or copper.  Everything we need will be ours because God will provide. When the time comes God will place something new in our hearts and minds.  We will have enjoyment in all that God shares.  There will be people there from all walks of life, from all the ages.  There is going to be a lot of testimony time.  But our interaction will never be boring but dynamic in its fellowship, Sublime in its depth, and wondrous in its anticipation.  We will be learning a new depths we could not have grasp here and now.  We will interact and fellowship with angels and mighty cherubim’s.  We will share with them the wonders of salvation. 

 Rev 21: 24, 26  And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

 THE VERY BEST WILL BE THERE.

 Now I can’t be dogmatic on this.  But I see the nations of those who are saved giving expression to their identity.  This means a Chinese believer will look Chinese.  African will look African, Asian will look Asian and so forth.  We each will contribute a sense of uniqueness and yet it will not detract from the other, but will enhance each other.  We are the Kings within that city, and  we bring that which is redeemed.  We will know each other and better still we will begin again to know each other afresh from a totally redeemed point of view.  No more misunderstandings or fight or quarrels to disturb the peace of that city.  It will be an accommodating society.  The pure will walks its streets, and holiness will be what we will seek.

 Rev 21: 5 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 

 This city has no need to rest so we will never grow tired.  So the city will be always expressing itself in its fullest and time will have no meaning.  I cant says there will be coffee shops or restaurants, but I can say we will be very active in the commerce of that city.

LIFE WILL BE THERE.

 Rev 22: 1-2 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.

 At this moment there is a great divide between the spiritual dimension and the earthly.  But here that divide will be gone.  For from the throne of God come living waters, pure and crystal clear and that river proceeds all the way down to the New Jerusalem and into the midst of the street.  NO more separation or divide.  In that city there will be just one tree, the tree of life.   

 THOSE WHO WALK IN THAT CITY WILL BE CLOTHED

 It’s important that we grasp the significance of this.  WE WILL BE CLOTHED!!!! 

We will all have a new resurrected BODY.  It will be dynamic, powerful healthy, enduring and   Sustaining.  It will be unblemished by sin or sickness.  It will not have the passions which we have now , so our new bodies will not lust after that which we do now,  But will be able to give full expression in worship and in speech .  We will be able to see in a way we cannot see now.  These eyes if you look directly at the sun will be damaged, but we will be able to look at the glory of God and be able to enjoy that glorious radiance and appreciate all that it radiates.  I can’t say what the high or size of our resurrected bodies will be?  But we will have more than enough space to express and fact we will be able to give full expression in our communication in a way we have not yet being able to.  Words often fail us when we seek to express what we see and read.  Such a GLORY, it almost pales into meaningless unless we have something to compare with.  On that day we will be able to express such words with an understanding we simply can’t define right now.

2 Cor 5: 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

 NO MORE CURSE.

 Rev 22: 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

 I think as humans who live under the curse we simply do see it as a curse, in the same way as GOD does.  Nor do we see the fullest of what that curse meant. Adam and Eve probably came to the nearest human to appreciate all that was change because of it.  The world and mankind has been shaped by its aftershocks.  Just as everything fell before the inrushing tsunami in Japan recently so the everything was affected by the curse.  The way we observed our world was forever blighted.  But not just will that curse be finally removed we will see it for what it is.

 GOD THE ARTIST, THE PHYSISIST THE POET, THE CHEMIST AND THE BIOLIGIST.

 There is nothing like the beauty of  sunset or the rising of the dawn.  Despite all that was blighted there is still this infinite beauty upon which we see.  Now if God can made this world and call it good.  Can we imagine what that same God will achieve in a world which is never destined to be blighted by sin?  The truth is we can yet.  But I hope on that day I will be standing with you looking out to a world so wondrous and beautiful that it will make this world look like a scrap yard.

SHEPHERD KING

The greatest joy has to be that we will finaly get to look upon the face off our shepherd king.  The one whose blood was shed for us.  This is the greatest love affair of the centuries.    This will be our:

 Yehovah Jireh the God who provides a lamb for the sins of the world

Yehovah Rapha – LORD Who Heals who took the curse and healed his people from their sins

Yehovah Roi – The Lord is My Shepherd king who shephered us to living waters

Jehovah Mekeddeshem – LORD Who Sanctifies and saved me when I was lost.

There is perhaps no harder question than the one which has been posed.  We live in a world that by distinction is heading in a direction which we are not.  Therefore we live at odds with it.  Having said that we have a tendency to shun all things worldly. Yet we are in the world and we therefore have to interact with that world, both good and the bad.  On one side do we reject all things regarded as worldly or do we go to the other side and embrace all things worldly.  Either side has problems.  Both seem to bring misery and discontent.  As Christian our moral meter desire more than anything to be holy and righteous.  Yet Christianity does present a tremendous freedom, But we should not allow that freedom to be the basis for sin.  Sin is therefore the issue here.  At one time old time Pentecostalism regarded going to the cinema as wicked, yet these same people would have a TV set in their living rooms.  Quite often what was on the cinema was soon on the TV.  These days there is more wickedness on TV than there was ever on the cinema.  Do we or should we get rid of the TV or do we make sure we use the off button or change the channel button at the right time.  So where does the cut of line become?  Do I reject all TV shows because the actors as not Christians?  Do I reject a film because the actors, directors or even if the film does not show a Christian content.  What about the film King of Kings?  We have an actor who plays Jesus.  Now as I have grown I have come to dislike images of Jesus being projected as they are not my Jesus.  But say someone does.  Should I demand that the film be burned or should I accept that someone else might get something from it.  On some subjects there is no easy answer.  Christians have been debating this issue for longer than I have lived.  Every generation has debated it and settled it in their own hearts.

 We are told not to set any evil before my eyes and we all agree to that.  But what is evil.  Again the meter might say all things, and before you know it we are all hiding in caves waiting for Jesus to return.  But if we go the other way, we will find ourselves out with the boys drinking and getting drunk.  Neither side seems to make for comfortable debate.  Wisdom is called of her children.  Can one Christian enjoy something another does not?  I think the answer is yes.  I am reminded of the debate on the issue of Meat sold on the cheap in the market.  The meat was part of a sacrifice to a pagan god.  Whilst only a small part went for sacrificing, the majority went on the market stall.  Some Christians had a problem with this.  Today we don’t really see the whole relevance quite in the way they did then.  This was a BIG BIG issue in the church.  Paul’s approach was that it did not mean anything.  If your conscience is clear buy and eat.  If not don’t.  But it was dedicated to a god?  Gods are nothing says Paul.  If your conscience bothers you I will do nothing to trip you up and so I will not eat meat from that stall.  In some sense unless their is gross wickedness involved every Christian has to some extent the freedom of conscience to decide when to apply the switch off button.  Which is why this area can become quite emotive.

  Often I am reminded of this verse:

 Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

 The law tries to conform the outward man, but was unable to conform the inward man.  Grace works the opposite way.  By working in the inward man the outward man is conform to the image of Christ. The early church battled with the same issue.  It was more than circumcision on the table, but a vast array of dos and don’ts, Sabbath keeping, holy days, dress code,  and worship practices.  Most of which were a milestone around the Jewish necks.  All of this was done away with.  The focus was now on the love of God.  If we love God then we will want to do right.  So we will accomplish in the spirit of things which the law could not achieve.  So there will always be a debate between liberty and legalism.  For one person a program might be just that a story, it has actors playing a part.  But for others it might become an issue.    Both have the liberty and right to accept and reject.  When something is obviously wrong, and the content is sinful, sexual, malicious then we must avoid.  But sometimes even when something is not sinful does not mean its right either.  A commercial that continually tries to sell a product that is beneficial can be wrong because it tries to influence what you buy.  I don’t like being influenced.

 At the moment I am checking out the Koran.  Now I have the liberty to read it.  I also have the liberty to reject it.  The Koran is 100% bogus.  It is a mix bag of superstition, some references from scripture, and a whole lot of gibberish.  But some people might say don’t touch its demonic.  I would not argue with that view because there is a good chance it is.  Some people would say you can’t read it because it comes from the devil.  Again I agree.  But I still have the freedom in Christ to check it out.  I am neither threaten by it or persuaded by what it claims.  It makes for a good joke book in places.  But there would be some Christians that for them the Koran is a NO NO.  They are not mature enough to handle what it teaches or lack off.   So for them it would not be a good idea.

 I am Scottish by birth. In Scotland pubs were for drinking.  people went in and came out drunk.  That was my perception.  I had a granddad that was into drink.  So as a young Christian pubs were always a BIG NO NO.  Now I came down to England.  Someone invites me into a pub. I immediately throws my hands up and declare “NO WAY, its a den of iniquity”   But English pups are not actual pups in the same way as the Scottish pups.  You can still get the grotty ones.  Don’t go near them.  But most pups in England are actually restaurants.  Most are orientated around the family.  This was a culture shock for me.  I mean radical.  Families going to a pup unheard off.  The concept was in fact quite normal.  Many instances you would not be able to tell any difference from any other restaurant.  The only noticeable difference is that they have a licence bar.  As I don’t drink alcohol it does not affect me as such.  Now here is the issue.  From the point of grace, I had the liberty to visit for lunch.  But what happens if there was a disco at night.  The ladies walk in with virtually no clothes on.  Drink might be going down faster than is being bought. Now children are usually not allowed into these premises after a certain time.  What do I do then?  Wisdom tells you that I will not go into a place at that time.    I do not put myself into a situation where there might be temptation.  Nor will I place evil before my eyes which might be the case if I did go in.

  Here comes another wild idea.  What about drinking alcohol?  Phew this is getting harder.  I don’t drink alcohol; I simply don’t have desire for it.  Being brought up in a very traditional Pentecostal holiness church alcohol was always a no no.  Again it’s that Scottish perspective.   Does the Bible specifically say don’t drink alcohol.  The answer is NO.  But the Bible clearly says don’t get drunk.  In Biblical days the water would kill you quicker than alcohol.  No water treatment in those days.  Ok that was then what about today?  Well because the Bible warns but does not strictly forbid then the answer has to be on Biblical grounds.  Some people drink alcohol for no other reason than to get drunk.  They call that a good time, yeah along with the hang over and everything else that might go along.  But as a Christian you would not go out to deliberately get drunk. Again wisdom would say we have the liberty, but do not use that liberty to sin or bring offence to the name of Christ.  Now for some drinking was a problem.  Should those individuals feel obliged to go anywhere near a pup?  The answer is obviously NO, for it might pose a temptation just as the selling of the meat that was sacrificed to animals did.  Now there was a style of drink called alcopop’s which was geared at teenagers.  The drinks were flavoured and many teenagers got drunk on them not realising just how potent they were.  Wisdom would say No to these drinks because of the effect they caused. 

Wisdom is both practical and simple.  Like check things out before you taste.

  A good plum line

If I took Jesus out with me, would I be ashamed where I went or what I did?

If you did then it is a good indicator that you should not go.  Like do you get in the car if you have had too much to drink?  Now you have the right to get into your own car, but common sense says don’t drive.  There are many things that we have a right too, but common sense says we don’t have to.

 Question from Richard

 “with regards to the pubs being restaurants and not going there at the times when the visitors are coming in with hardly any clothes………….I would still say the general atmosphere of pubs is dingy, dark, and depending on where you go the waitress at a pub is usually dressed according to pub atmosphere (day or night), unless its a guy of course……..a pub would not be my first choice for a restaurant (not to mention the temptation to drink alcohol – or be around the smell of it, etc). “

 I would agree and if that was the case I would avoid them.  However from the ones I have seen.  They are family orientated; no smell of drink and the waitresses are well covered up.  However the issue is one of wisdom and making the right choices.  While we have the freedom does not always mean we should.  Which is why I contrasted the difference between the Scottish pubs and the English pubs.  Many Scottish pups are exactly as described.  I would flee them as if the devil was behind me.   I could extend this concept to restaurants, leisure centres, and just about most places.  They all have aspects which we might have issues with.  But what is the freedom to choose.  The point I am trying to make is making the right choices in situations.   I have seen Christians become so liberal that I had to wonder if they were ever Christians at all. In such cases it become an aspect that anything goes, and hell mend the person who tries to tell them..

 

 I have seen Christians get so wrapped up in legalism that they were so bound up and miserable that most people would run from that type of Gospel.  They have absolutely no grace whatsoever.  Its all law and they hound themselves desperately and everyone else around them.  The trouble is that they have become so hounded that they come to reject even what is right.  The devil has a curious trick he plays on Christians who are extremely feverant for God.  He pushes a Christian to become more and more devout until the Christian has moved himself over into a works orientated legalism. 

 

I once knew a person who did just that and now he lives with women as if he is her husband.  She is divorced and so they were able to marry, but they were persuaded that God did not approve of remarriage.  So he now lives with her.  Everyone now sees them as an item.  Despite the fact the Bible says to abstain from all appearance of evil.  I have no doubt that the neighbours see this Christian couple living together and know they are not married.  Again choices and making the right ones.

 

This has also been posted

 

The so called used to be minister says oh its only required of a minister to give up all their drinking…….but the laity do not have the same responsibilities

so is it any wonder these used to be ministers are seen in pubs, dance clubs, drinking buddies, etc…….. they are just using Christianity as a cover up to get good with God….who are they fooling? Certainly not God.

Another thing I kept being told is ‘did you get a woman yet’?  They think having a woman/wife is the solution to everything – its not!! – and its not the root, nor the source either………..
or while we were in the restaurant the false teacher would tell me so what do you think of the waitress? or someone should tell that girl over there she is quite hot……..

So would we say that this is liberty that is becoming license?   Would we say that in this instance liberty is giving way to licentiousness?  In fact I would go as far as to say they have joined the world.  So choices are important.  We are in the world but we are not of the world.  This raises another question

 

What we say is it important?

 

1 Cor 15: 33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

 

Math 12: 33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.

 

Eph 4: 29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

 

This is one area that the Bible has a lot to say.  Our lives should be an example both in our actions and in what we say.  What comes out of our mouth is but a hint at what lies within us. 

 

Testimony about a pastor who drinks

 

“sure enough one day (my birthday even) it was a long weekend and those in the fellowship went over to his house for regular bible study (out in the country on the lake) and we did that and then we went boating and drinking and got drunk and made real idiots of ourselves and his wife at first had refused to give him the boat keys, so he had to go and pry them from her and she said “your funeral” and came back to us and said lets go, they are not happy with us…….I knew this was wrong, but I was too drunk and my judgment was not right, nor was my control, so I went along with it………….

I told him at one point – you are the minister here (sort of leader) and you allowed us to get drunk and even put a stumbling block before us – this is very wrong – thank you for making me realize how easy it is to fall and how much it grieves the Holy Spirit for a Christian to do this. I won’t be getting drunk again, you could have gotten us killed on that boat (response: nah I was in full control, done this many times).

 

Liberty and legalism what is the choice?  The man had a right to board his own boat.  That was his liberty,  but Legally he was wrong to try and drive it .  How are we to decide?  The Bible makes it clear.  As a Drunk he is forbidden to hold the office of a minister.  If he had received genuine grace he would have never placed himself or others in the position he did.  Genuine grace should seek to make us wise in our discernment.  Open to the leading of his Holy Spirit.