UC MINISTRIES: Warren seems to be back in the news again.  The subject is his support for CHRISLAM.  This has been one debate that simply refuses to go away.  It seems when ever its gets too hot in the Kitchen, Warren comes out with a denial that he was ever in the kitchen.  Trying to pin him down on issues that inevitable blow up in his face is becoming laughable.  He in turn is becoming slimier than an eel to hold down.  CHRISLAM is you are not sure of what it means is a growing movement that tries to find common INTERFAITH dialogue between Christian and Moslems.

Proponents for and against might help explain this topic:

We are brothers, We are a family of God. Not one of us is better than the other in His eyes. He loves us both. The future can only be won against the “Evil one” by all of us standing strong together.” Malcom X

“Dozens of churches, from Park Hill Congregational in Denver to Hillview United Methodist in Boise, Idaho, and First United Lutheran in San Francisco to St. Elizabeth’s Episcopal Church in Honolulu, are planning to send ‘a message both here at home and to the Arab and Muslim world about our respect for Islam’ with a time to read the Quran during worship this Sunday.” June 24, 2011 article from World Net Daily

Van Impe named California megachurch founders Rick Warren and Robert H. Schuller as proponents of “Chrislam,” which he defined as “a uniting of Christianity with Islam.” TBN pulled the episode before a repeat broadcast could air.

Michigan-based ,Ministries said its board of directors decided unanimously Thursday (June 17) to no longer work with TBN.

“We would not be able to minister effectively if we had to look over our shoulder wondering if a program was going to be censored because of mentioning a name,” said Ken Vancil, executive director of the ministry, in a statement.

TBN president and founder Paul Crouch expressed disappointment with the ministry’s decision. “Although I understand, and actually agree with, your position that you ‘will not allow anyone to tell me what I can and cannot preach,’ I trust you understand that TBN takes the same position with its broadcast air time as well,” Crouch wrote in a letter to Van Impe.

Van Impe’s program cited Warren’s speech to an Islamic conference in Washington in 2009 and Schuller’s keynote address at an interfaith conference called “A Common Word” in 2008. Van Impe and his co-host wife, Rexella, also claimed Warren said churches can attract new believers by taking crosses down from inside and outside their buildings.

In a June 8 tweet, Warren said just the opposite: “If you remove the cross from the church, it’s no longer the church. Just a social club.”  Christianity today 2011

Christian-Muslim Consultative Group. (CMCG) “Beginning in 2008, the members of The CMCG developed the concept for Standing Together in response to a collective realization that there did not appear to be any study guides on Islam and Christianity that were developed by teams of Christians and Muslims working in partnership on the same materials.  In this sense, Standing Together represents a unique collaboration that reveals the richness and vibrancy of these faith traditions and teachings.  The goals of Standing Together are to:

1. To bring Muslim and Christian neighbors together to come to know one another as people and break down the dehumanizing stereotypes that keep us apart and fearful of one another. We live in the same neighborhoods; our kids go to school together; we see each other in the supermarket. However, we often don’t know each other very well, if at all, since it is rare for Christians and Muslims in the United States to socialize formally or informally. With Standing Together, the members of The CMCG hope to bridge relationships and communities together.

2. To create opportunities for faithful Muslims and Christians to engage with one another about beliefs and practices. Of course, it is always possible to pick up a book or watch a television program and get some of the same information; but with Standing Together, face-to-face interactions develop a deeper, first-hand knowledge of the ways in which our faith traditions are both similar and distinctive. Furthermore, in the process of this dialogue, you will clarify your knowledge about your own beliefs and traditions.

3. To lay the foundation for possible future projects that your group might choose to do together to enhance the well-being of all your members and communities. The members of The CMCG have found ways to partner on many projects of common interest beyond the original intent of the organization, and share fellowship with one another as our bonds of friendship deepen. It is our prayer that your dialogue group will also experience the abundance of more profound relationships together.

 It is also important to clarify what Standing Together is not.  It is not an opportunity to try to convert one another.  As you talk about your own faith tradition, speak from your experience and knowledge, and in a way that honors the experience and knowledge of all the members of your group.  Come to the dialogue assuming that you will disagree on some matters, but open to hearing the perspective of the other side.  Listen for the unexpected ways in which you may be more alike than different.  Be renewed in your understanding of what makes you who you are and in  “     (Christian-Muslim Consultative Group. (CMCG)   

http://thecmcg.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=56&Itemid=56 the faithfulness of our Creator.  Stand Together.

Eph 5:11 And  have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].

The one thing that stands out in the CMCG web site for interfaith dialogue is the rejection of any attempt to win Moslems to Christ.  But where does it say in scripture that we should avoid winning anyone to Christ. They simply do not have the authority to determine such doctrines.  If a lost eternity is what lies ahead for Moslems then sharing the good news with them is vitally important.

To partnership on the basis that the God of the Bible and the god of Islam are one and the same is just nonsense. Any close study shows that allah has an altogether different nature from the God of the Bible.  The only similarities is that allah means god in Arabic However that same term has been used of many from Pagan idols such Baal, Ashtoreth and even man has been referred to as being gods. Just because the Bible Acknowledges such facts does not mean Gods approves of them as being bona fide gods with all the qualities that are associated with GOD, The Bible however has made his names known, His nature and his will through the Scriptures and to the people of Israel.  Whilst similarities are suggested between the Bible and the Koran, within context the differences are vast.  Like any great forger you always borrow material from the original to give the appearance that something is original.  So the Koran borrowed sources both from Scripture and as well as fairy stories myths and in some cases just outright fantasies of that period.  Like the one about the sun found setting down in a muddy pool of water whilst the locals sat around and no doubt enjoyed the sight.  (Koran 18: 86)

This has not been the first time that Warren has been caught out telling fibs.  Originally a keen supporter of Proposition 8 and there is a video on Youtube where he is seen encouraging people to come out in support of it. 

Proposition 8

Proposition 8 (ballot title: Eliminates Rights of Same-Sex Couples to Marry. Initiative Constitutional Amendment; called California Marriage Protection Act by proponents) was a ballot proposition and constitutional amendment passed in the November 2008 state elections. The measure added a new provision, Section 7.5 of the Declaration of Rights, to the California Constitution, which provides that “only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California

However when his church started to be picketed by various homosexual groups he did one of his famous U turns and was seen denying ever having anything to do with Proposition 8. 

This is what the article had to say:

Newspaper catches Rick Warren fibbing?  Says Saddleback confirmed its report on ‘Chrislam’ accurate

When an Orange County Register article about Rev. Rick Warren of Saddleback Church’s mission to heal differences between evangelical Christians and Muslims was published, some of the pastor’s critics saw it as more evidence of a blurry vision of “Chrislam,” a blending of Christianity and Islam, despite his repeated denials.

The Feb. 23 article cited Saddleback documents that see similarities between Christianity and Islam. One co-authored by Jihad Turk of the Christian-Muslim Consultative Group in Los Angeles and Abraham Meulenberg, pastor of Interfaith Outreach at Saddleback claims the two religions “worship the same God.”

While many supporters of Warren insist that claims in the article are false, the Register reporter and an editor at the paper told WND that Saddleback Church leadership confirmed that the article was “factually accurate.”

“Folks at Saddleback initially made but then withdrew a request for a clarification to the story’s first paragraph,” reporter Jim Hinch told WND in an email.

“Instead of the words ‘Muslims and Christians worship the same God’ they wanted the story to read ‘Muslims and Christians believe that God is one.’ The rest of the story, they said, is factually accurate.”

WND calls and emails to Warren were not returned.

Despite his staff’s acknowledgement to the Register that the article is factually accurate, Warren denied claims in the article by pointing the finger at the reporter for “getting it wrong.”

“This is an example of why I always doubt what I read in newspapers and blogs about ministries,” Warren said in a statement sent to church members.

After the Register article was published, Warren issued a statement through a Christian Post reporter in an interview format.

Warren said, “A few days ago, an article appeared in the Orange County Register that included some outrageous statements about Saddleback that were incorrect.

“Of course, the media rarely gets everything right, and there’s no way we could respond to every false statement made about us. But I felt this article created so many misperceptions that I agreed to do an interview in response.”

The interviewer also asked Warren if people of other religions worship the same God as Christians, to which Warren replied, “Of course not. Christians have a God that is unique.”

Steve McConkey, of bigworldwatch.com, a news gathering site, said of Warren’s response to the article: “A person should not say one thing one time and another thing later and then blame the reporter.

“The problem that we have is that he has a case of doublespeak. Warren denies the Orange County Register article’s contents, but the document he signed ‘A Common Word Between Us and You’ says differently,” said McConkey.

McConkey was referring to a much publicized 2007 document signed by Warren, among many other Christian leaders. Within the first few lines it says that “many Christians have been guilty of sinning against our Muslim neighbors.”

“Before we ‘shake your hand’ in responding to your letter, we ask forgiveness of the All-Merciful One and of the Muslim community around the world,” the document states.

The lengthy document then outlines how both Muslims and Christians serve “one God” and makes an argument that the two are one in the same, much like the “King’s Way” document unveiled in December at Saddleback Church.

It is that perspective that some Christians have called “Chrislam.”

Saddleback and Warren declined numerous WND attempts to speak about the issue. But in the Christian Post, he responded.

The publication asked, “Are you promoting Chrislam?”

“Of course not. It’s the lie that won’t die,” he said.

Yet his staff has acknowledged the Register article is correct, he had a role in the “King’s Way” document and he signed “Common Word.”

The Register story mentions that both Turk and Gwynn Guibord serve an organization called Christian-Muslim Consultative Group. (CMCG)

WND reached Guibord regarding her interview with Hinch. In the interview she states that her group has avoided inviting evangelical churches to join their endeavor to “foster relationships between churches and mosques” but is now changing that opinion because “Saddleback’s effort is unprecedented.


Full article can be seen here: Plus the origional story by Orange County Register.

 Compromise is definitely OUT!!!

Whilst Rick Warren is someone I simply would not trust going by past statements.  The reality of CHRISLAM is one that will not go away, even if it is proven or not that Warren was back in the kitchen promoting another fallacy and doctrinal heresy.  The Reality is that Chrislam exists.   However in the light of growing persecution of Christians by Islamic extremist who hold to a book that promotes terrorism.  To a religion whose very history has seen weaves of invasions cross the Middle East, North Africa, Europe and the Far East, it simply cannot be trusted.

Be ye therefore very courageous to keep and to do all that is written in the book of the law of Moses, that ye turn not aside therefrom to the right or to the left. That ye come not among these nations that remain among you; neither make mention of the name of their gods, nor cause to swear by them, neither serve them, nor bow yourselves unto them. But cleave unto the Lord your God, as ye have done unto this day” [Joshua 23:7-8]…

 “Now therefore fear the Lord and serve him in sincerity… And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve… If ye forsake the Lord and serve strange gods then he will turn and do you hurt… Now therefore put away said he the strange gods which are among you and incline your heart unto the Lord God of Israel” [Joshua 24: 1-23].

The reality is that we are not at liberty to join with any false worship.  Nor give way for one second to false teachings.  We are not called to dialogue as brothers in arms with those who have confessed to another god and another gospel. Whatever is the truth of the matter concerning Rick Warren and Chrislam.  Chrislam is an unbiblical compromise that cannot be blessed by Gods.

 Who hold in their hands a book that will promote terrorism against Jews and Christian in the name of their prophet.

Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other Qur’an 5:51

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the Last Day, who do not forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, or acknowledge the Religion of Truth (Islam), (even if they are) People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizyah tribute tax in submission, feeling themselves subdued and brought low.” [Another translation says:] “pay the tax in acknowledgment of our superiority and their state of subjection Qur’an 9:29

The Jews and the Christians say: ‘We are sons of Allah, and his beloved.’ Say: ‘Why then does He punish you for your sins? Nay, you are but men. He forgives whom He wishes and punishes whom He pleases Qur’an 5:18

When Allah’s Apostle became seriously sick, he started covering his face with a woolen sheet. When he felt short of breath, he removed it, and said, ‘That is so! Allah’s curse be on Jews and Christians Bukhari:V5B59N727

So if Moslems were to promote such dialogue would they not be seen as disobeying the very book they believe they are following?

And [for] their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.” And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.   Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.    surah 4.157-158

Who by their own confession follow another Jesus.  In contrast to Muhammad is not even great enough to tie Muhammad’s shoes. Jesus very sacrifice is rejected for some deception on the part of God (allah).  The substituted Lamb of God finds himself substituted at the last minute.  Such a rejection takes place in the light of scripture, prophecy and the documentation of numerous witnesses to Jesus crucifixion and resurrection. The inevitable rejection holds God up as the perpetrator of some monstrous deception and Jesus as some cowardly liar.  Who hides out for three days only to reappear to fulfil what never took place.  Who would want to follow such betrayal and cowardliness of a prophet who predicted a death that never came to pass and further more allows his disciples to believe and die for a falsehood? 

John 2: 19 & 21  Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up…… But he spake of the temple of his body.

Luke 24: 7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again

Clearly to enter into dialogue with any religion which Mocks Christ in such manner and holds him up to such contempt is simply impossibility.  In fact it would be a betrayal of everything which is dear to a Christian.

  1. Zuerner, John & Lucy says:

    He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. —1 John 5:12

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