This is not where it ends!!!

Jehovah Witnesses on the subject of life after death will always post or use the same verses, usually to the exclusion of all others.  Like some mantra that has been pounded into them by the organisation.    They do not believe in an immortal soul, and therefore upon death the person simply ceases to exist.  Nothing transpires for the soul afterwards.

Here are a few quotes I was given recently. 

Ecclesiastes 9:5  The living at least know they will die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward, nor are they remembered.

Ecclesiastes 1:11 There is no remembrance of men of old, and even those who are yet to come will not be remembered by those who follow

Ecclesiastes 2:16 For the wise man, like the fool, will not be long remembered; in days to come both will be forgotten. Like the fool, the wise man too must die!

Isaiah 26:14 They are now dead, they live no more; those departed spirits do not rise. You punished them and brought them to ruin; you wiped out all memory of them

The implication is that once the person dies he simply ceases to exist. The dead are buried and after that there is no more hope.  Nothing is carried on and there is no immortal soul.

But do these verses or even the Bible as a whole support this concepts?  Let’s take a closer look and judge for yourselves.

Ecc 9: 6   Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun

Taken out of context any verse can be made to say something else. Such terms as “perish” would imply an extinction, until we place the verse back into context.

Ecc 9:4-7   For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun

Solomon used a phrase which he repeated often.  >>> UNDER THE SUN<<< He uses it to refer to what happens to mankind in general.  The emphasis then in this chapter is again on what happens to people who are alive on this earth.  It is from that perspective that he talking about.  The dead don’t know what is happening in THIS LIFE!!  They have moved on and have no contact with what goes on IN THIS LIFE!!  The dead have no interaction with those who are alive on this earth.  Living have no interaction with the dead.

So the dead do not come back to haunt people or places.   Nor can they send messages back from beyond the grave to comfort the Living.   A good example has to be the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.  The rich man had an awareness of where he was at, he had feelings and he was in a position to experience bodily sensation.  But at no time was he in a position to know what his brothers were doing or even to contact them.  Even when he pleaded for someone to send his brothers a message no such message could be sent.  They have Moses and the prophet was the reply.

Reward:  There is no more reward.  The Bible says it appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement.  Whilst a person is alive he still has time to find God, receive salvation.  Know the truth.  Once dead that opportunity passes.  Their fate is sealed forever. Every opportunity to interact with the living for good or bad has passed.  Whatever one has in worldly goods money fame honour is gone.  You can’t take it with you.

Ecc 1:11   [There is] no remembrance of former [things]; neither shall there be [any] remembrance of [things] that are to come with [those] that shall come after.

Again this verse is open to abuse.  What things have “NO REMEMBERANCE OF FORMER THINGS” REMEMBRANCE OF THINGS TO COME”  What things?

This verse might give us a clue >>>Ecc 1:9   The thing that hath been, it [is that] which shall be; and that which is done [is] that which shall be done: and [there is] no new [thing] under the sun.  Notice the common term is repeated once again “UNDER THE SUN”   Solomon is not talking about what happens after one is dead but what happens when one is still alive.

Ecc 1:13   And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all [things] that are done UNDER HEAVEN: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith.

Solomon is not exploring what takes place after one is dead but what is the wisdom of those who are alive.  History unless one is famous and it is recorded is forgotten by those who come after. In many cases the experiences that have been experienced by many are not always remembered or valued by future generations.

Ecc 2:16   For [there is] no remembrance of the wise more than of the fool for ever; seeing that which now [is] in the days to come shall all be forgotten. And how dieth the wise [man]? as the fool.

Again there is no mention here of how the dead exist, but in how they lived.  Both the wise man and the fool will die.  Death is the inevitable consequences of the fall. Both will die and both will one day be forgotten.  The sad reality is that one day all who have lived will be forgotten.

Isaiah 26:14 They are now dead, they live no more; those departed spirits do not rise. You punished them and brought them to ruin; you wiped out all memory of them

Does this verse say that the departed are no more?  Poof gone!!!

Ecc 2:17   Therefore I hated life; because the work that is wrought UNDER THE SUN [is] grievous unto me: for all [is] vanity and vexation of spirit.

Again Solomon uses this phrase  “UNDER THE SUN”. At no time is Solomon exploring the realities of the departed other than the knowledge that what comes to all men under the sun.  The dead do not come back to speak to the living unless resurrected

Ecc 2:18 Yea, I hated all my labour which I had taken UNDER THE SUN: because I should leave it unto the man that shall be after me.

Otherwise the wealth we labour for will one day be owned by someone else.    Solomon’s preoccupation is about all that took place UNDER THE SUN, NOT WHAT TOOK PLACE UNDER THE GROUND.  You can build a kingdom and accumulation of wealth, but you can’t take it with you when you die.

Jesus said much the same thing about not laying up treasures on this earth where moth and rust can devour, But lay up for yourself treasures in heaven. However unless ones survives death such wealth accumulated will serve no purpose.

The Watchtower will often point to Genesis by saying:  This from their own web site

Genesis 2:7 states: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.” The first man, Adam, was a soul. Source article titled :  (DO YOU HAVE AN IMMORTAL SOUL?) http://www.watchtower.org/e/20070715/article_01.htm

The idea here is that Adam body was called a Soul.  However as we all know the Body of Adam had already been created and was lying motionless on the ground until God breathed the breath of life into him.  It is only then he became a living Soul and not before hand.

The understanding that the word “soul” can mean the whole person is supported by other scriptures. For example, the Bible speaks of a soul’s doing work. (Leviticus 23:30) The soul is spoken of as being impatient, irritated, sleepless, fearful, and depressed. (Judges 16:16; Job 19:2; Psalm 119:28; Acts 2:43; 1 Thessalonians 5:14) Referring to a soul as a person, Romans 13:1 states: “Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities.” And at 1 Peter 3:20, we read: “In Noah’s days, . . . a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.” Nothing in these scriptures indicates that the soul is some immaterial entity that lives on after death

However nor does it say that the soul was equal to the Body.  If the soul and the body meant the same thing why bother to make such a difference.  Why not simply change all the reference to the soul and place it with the word “body”>>>>  Let every BODY be subject to the higher powers.  Or only eight Bodies were carried safely through the waters.  Why make a difference between the term BODY and soul.  Could it be because there is a difference?

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

If the soul is just another word for the body then why does Jesus make a clear and precise separation between them?  Is not killing the Body the same as killing the soul?  Jesus says Fear not them which >>>KILL THE BODY >>> But ARE NOT ABLE TO KILL THE SOUL<<<<

If Jesus himself says that there is a difference between the two than it would seem logical to take heed to what Jesus says.

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Now again why bother to make any difference if the soul was the body.  In fact why does it not simply say that your whole spirit and body be preserved blameless, But they don’t believe in the spirit either.  That is nothing more than ones breathe.  How can ones breath be preserved blameless?   So Paul would have to change that verse to say that your whole Body be preserved blameless unto the coming of the Lord Jesus.  However as they don’t believe anything exists after death what is there to preserve anyway?

Clearly, the Bible shows what man is. He does not have a soul; he is a soul. Because of what man is—his nature—any hope for future life for the dead depends on a resurrection, a raising up. The Bible promises: “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear [Jesus’] voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.” (John 5:28, 29) That sure promise of a resurrection—not the teaching of the immortality of the soul—is the basis for real hope for the dead.

Yet the very fact that scripture makes such a separation would say otherwise.  What hope does the watchtower offer ?  Absolutely Nothing!!!!!  So what is resurrected if there is no immortal soul?  I mean  if nothing survives death what is there to resurrect.  The term often used IS GODS REMEMBRANCE OF THE DEAD.  So what gets resurrected is only Gods memory of an individual.  The individual is therefore never resurrected.  What you have is a fact simile, a look alike.  They try to persuade people to call this a HOPE!!!!

Without a immortal soul there can not be a resurrection to speak off.  It would therefore be called a recreation.

Jesus in sharing about the rich man and Lazarus make it quite clear that these two men had died,  Did they cease to exist ?  No Jesus says that the rich man wakes up in hell,  He has ceased to live among the living.  His brothers have no way of contacting him.  Though he was dead yet he was alive.  So what died?  His body was in the grave but the rich man was clearly not in the grave. Was there a separation being made between the Body and soul here?  Absolutely!!!!

…in his resurrection he ‘became a life-giving spirit.’ That was why for most of the time he was invisible to his faithful apostles… He needs no human body any longer… The human body of flesh, which Jesus Christ laid down forever as a ransom sacrifice, was disposed of by God’s power.”—“ (Things in Which it is Impossible for God to Lie,” pp. 332, 354)

“So the evidence indicates that the Son of God was known as Michael before he came to earth and is known also by that name since his return to heaven where he resides as the glorified spirit Son of God.”—(Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, 1989, p. 218)

 1Cr 15:12-15 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen. And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your faith [is] also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not

1Cr 15:17-19   And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Yet is this not the very argument which the Watchtower uses that the dead are not raised.  That Christ was not actually raised from the dead but was a created spirit being.

Whilst many believers in those early days wondered about what happens to a love one that has died.  Are they resurrected or was that a furlong hope.  It was made clear that the dead do indeed live on.  One day they will be reunited with a new resurrected body.

1 Cor 15: 35-40 But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die. And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds. [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another.

1 Cor 15: 42-44 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption.  It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Cor 15: 45-48  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven. As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.

1 Cor 15: 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly

Now Paul is trying to tell us something here that should blow our socks off.    The carnal seed is the Body we know have.  Its sown into the dust of the earth and decomposes.  The same goes for many seeds that are planted.  The outer shell dies and out from it comes a plant.  Even so our bodies are returned to dust.  Its only the carnal shell.  However there seems to be this aspect that the soul needs a body to house the soul in. Paul compares the first Adam with the second.  The first reproduced the carnal flesh we live in now.  The second Adam will reproduce a spiritual body.  All who are of second Adams seed will be raised in glorious body that will be immortal.  We cant say exactly what it will look like all we know is that when his body was raise it had been changed.  It was the same body but it had been altered.  Even those whose bodies have long since decomposed to nothing or destroyed will be housed.  This new Body will have none of the imperfections of the last.  It will not age and therefore can’t succumbed to decay.  I suspect that its make up will be radically different from the one we have now.  Otherwise the laws which confine us to this earth will be changed.  It will bear the image of the heavenly.  We will have a completely different perspective on what is going on around us. 

Rev 7: 9- 10  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands. And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Now if we are to stand before the throne and the throne is in heaven, then it sure makes sense that we will have bodies that can do so.  We will be able to behold what is until now veiled.  At present only angels behold the throne and the few who were taken up in heavenly visions.   Those that did recalled at the awesome glory and majesty that touched their souls.  Man by nature because of the fall recoils from such a purity and holiness.  On that day we will be as pure and holy as Jesus is.  We will not recoil at its brightness or its warmth.  But rejoice in its glow.

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Comments
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