WHEN PREACHING BECOMES BULLYING

Posted: December 15, 2010 in false teachers, James Lyman, Manipulating people
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James Lyman Heckling a Passerby

James “the preacher” Lyman verbally assaulting a passerby at the Indy 500 in 2008. Is this “sound speech”? (Titus 2:7-8)

IS THIS PREACHING THE GOSPEL OR IS THIS BULL BAITING PEOPLE?

Lets break this conversation down a little.:

WOMAN STOPS, AND STANDS TO LISTEN:

The unpleasant preacher jumps in with his usual routine…..

0.22 Look at this ….You don’t like this
0.23 Bible says a Christian woman..woman of character.. meek and quiet
0.30 Woman is like a prostitute opens her mouth a lot

(NOTE No Bible verse to support this remark)
THIS LADY HAS SO FAR SAID NOTHING ?

0.36 Go ahead what does your …say.                                                 (WOMAN DOES NOT RESPOND)
0: 39 Wait a minute a woman quiet for 15 seconds
0:44 Call the New York times we have got a female that did not open her mouth for 15 seconds
0:40-50  (shouts) Call the New York times she is still quite…..
0: 53 We have a female that has not opened her mouth for 30 seconds….
0: 58 Lets call ABC..Call CBS… Call NBC…. We have a woman who has been quite for one whole minute

AT THIS POINT THE WOMAN HAS BEEN GOADED INTO SPEAKING , AND PROCEEDS TO WALK AWAY.

1: 11     The speaker then declares.  “ Another loud mouth woman on her way to hell”

Look at the set up.  Had she spoken I have no doubt what the preachers reply would have been.  But in the face of what I can only call abusive bullying she remains silent.   He then goaded her until she DID SPEAK.  When she did he then brings in this last remark,  Was his estimation of the woman right,  No she did  in fact remained silent.  So the accusation of being “loud mouth” was incorrect.  He threw at her a false accusation.  If anyone was loud here it was him.

2 Peter 2: 10-11 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous [are they], selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

The word dignities also carries with it the meaning of primarily denotes “an opinion, estimation, repute;”   Otherwise giving a false opinion about someone.

Titus 2: 7-8  In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine [shewing] uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity, Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.  (WAS THIS BULLYING SOUND SPEECH?)

Col 4:5-6   Walk in wisdom towards them that are without, redeeming the time. Let your speech [be] alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. ( WAS HE WISE IN HIS DEALINGS WITH HER?)

SALT: To eat of a person’s “salt” and so to share his hospitality is still regarded thus among the Arabs. So in Scripture, it is an emblem of the covenant between God and His people, Num 18:19; 2Ch 13:5; so again when the Lord says “Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace one with another” (Mar 9:50). In the Lord’s teaching it is also symbolic of that spiritual health and vigor essential to Christian virtue and counteractive of the corruption that is in the world.  Salt does not mean cutting someone up with spite or meanness or even verbally accosting them.   Salt was a preservative which helped to sustain everything it came into contact with.  So we are to be that preservative within society.  In our speech and conduct.

Math 10: 16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.    (WAS HIS CONVERSATION  LIKE A SHEEP  HARMLESS OR A WOLF?)

Jam 1:26   If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion [is] vain.  

1Cr 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. (WAS HE WELL MANNERED IN HIS DEALINGS WITH HER?)

Matthew Henry commentary

The apostle exhorts them further to a prudent and decent conduct towards all those with whom they conversed, towards the heathen world, or those out of the Christian church among whom they lived

1Th 4:12 That ye may walk honestly towards them that are without, and that ye may have need of nothing

honestly — in the Old English sense, “becomingly,” as becomes your Christian profession; not bringing discredit on it in the eyes of the outer world, as if Christianity led to sloth and poverty (Rom_13:13; 1Pe_2:12)  So that in the way we deal with people it has to be above reproach.

AT THE END OF THIS ENCOUNTER WOULD WE SAY THAT THE WOMAN WAS MORE ATTRACTED TO THE GOSPEL, OR REVOLTED BY IT.  DID THIS PREACHER BRING SCORN ON THE VERY NAME OF OUR PRECIOUS LORD OR NOT?

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Comments
  1. James Lyman says:

    You incorrectly judge me and slander me. I do believe in compassion, but ignorant “believers: like you do not understand hard preaching and reproof and rebuke (2 Tim 4:1,2 etc.). Grow up and then apologize for your lies and slander, and next time obey the scriptures and come to me first!

  2. Just to let my readers know. I did indeed speak to mr Lyman previously to posting this on my blog. All I got for my troubles was abuse. As for slandering him well the video speaks for itself. I have simply posted it as seen. I will allow my readers to make up their own minds.

    If anyone wants to comment on what this preacher has to say then please do so.

    • I will vouch for Pastor Sommerville in that he did speak to Mr. Lyman about this issue as I was present in the conversation. It is as he says.

      Another point I’d like to bring up. Mr. Lyman, who professes to be a clergyman recently said on Facebook, “My answer for the Sodomites in the Military: Send ONLY sodomites to Iraq to fight! Then…”

      Now I ask you the reader, Would Jesus Christ speak this way about sinners?

  3. James says HE HAS COMPASSION well here is an example of this mans compassion. This preacher believes that God judged Haiti because of their vodoo religion.

    How does he know that God has judged Haiti, he even admits he does not know for sure. Yet with such great compassion he says I will not give then a dime. (5: 33 into the video) If anyone disagrees with him he calls them carnal and brainwashed. IN THE END HE BECOMES HIS OWN GOD DISPENSING HIS OWN FORM OF JUSTICE.

    The preacher says that Haiti is the place for the most popular area in the world for voodoo. Lets see is that is true or not.

    Religious Beliefs.
    The official state religion is Catholicism, but over the last four decades Protestant missionary activity has reduced the proportion of people who identify themselves as Catholic from over 90 percent in 1960 to less than 70 percent in 2000.

    SO CHRISTIANITY IS HAVING AN IMPACT ON THIS NATION.
    Now I might understand if vodoo was growing, but the evidence shows the opposite.

    A U.N. Population Fund census released in May 2006 (based on 2003 data) revealed the following religious demographics: 54.7 percent of the population was Roman Catholic, 15.4 percent was Baptist, 7.9 percent Pentecostal, 3 percent Adventist, 2.1 percent voodoo (vodun), 1.5 percent Methodist, 0.7 percent Episcopalian, 0.5 percent Jehovah’s Witnesses, 0.07 percent Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons), 0.02 percent Muslim, and 0.4 percent other religious affiliation; 10.2 percent reported they followed no religion. Census data did not account for the remaining 3.51 percent of the population.

    HERE IS A WORD FROM THE LOCAL HAITI BAPTIST CHURCH AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

    Every year, the pastors and members from the 33 churches in the Artibonite region gather from the 3 districts, Drouin, Drouette, and Pon De Ester. They come together to mount a strong evangelical campaign in one of the districts, alternating yearly. This year, the congregations gathered in Drouette.

    During the week-long revival, the church members were able to visit 161 homes where 94 people accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior!

    During the Sunday service, which culminated the time in Drouette, a Voodoo priest called for the pastors. Earlier in the week, the pastors had visited him, but he said that he was not ready to believe in Jesus.
    The church sent a delegation to the priests house, and the Voodoo priest prayed with the church members to accept Christ as his personal Savior!

    Following the custom of a Voodoo priest choosing to follow Christ, the man and members of the church collected the many Voodoo charms and fetishes and burned them, symbolizing a clear break from his past.
    The conversion of a Voodoo priest is always a wonderful testimony for the entire community, and many people usually follow, no longer afraid to accept Christ. But it isnt always an easy decision.

    Last fall, we told you about Pastor Onnel from Gonaives. He and his family lost everything in the storms. But even in this loss, God was working for the glory of His kingdom.

    After the storms, Pastor Onnel rented a room in a house for his wife and five children, only to discover later that the house was owned by a Voodoo priestess named Charlotte. She had been trying to put a curse on him and his ministry.

    As Pastor Onnel and his wife prayed to the Lord for strength and guidance, the Voodoo priestess realized that Pastor Onnelâ God was stronger than any power she had. She then prayed and accepted Christ as her very own Savior.
    Charlotte faced strong opposition from the Voodoo community in Gonaives and was forced to leave the area. She went to live with other family members, but they do not support her new faith in Christ. She is not allowed to go to Church, and they dont permit any visits from fellow believers.

    Please join us in praying for Charlottes young faith and for all the Voodoo priests who convert to Christianity.
    The choice to abandon Voodoo and follow Christ comes with strong social repercussions, often resulting in alienation by loved ones. Yet, when they persevere and grow in the faith, the Lord uses these community leaders to accomplish great things in His name.

    Yes, the bonds of Voodoo in Haiti are still strong, but we know that Jesus Christ is even stronger!

    You can support our partnering pastors in their efforts to share the Good News throughout Haiti. When you give online and designate evangelism in the reference line, your gift will go directly to the field to spread the news of Jesus Christ.

    Jer 26:3 If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.

    WAS HAITI GODS JUDGEMENT?
    If he was to judge a nation because they were catholic then Rome would be first. If such a judgment descended because they were homosexual then san Francisco would be the first place. If it was because the nation was into voodoo Africa would get it.

    Feb. 9-11, 2004 — Vodun is an ancient religion practiced by some 30 million people in the West African nations of Benin, Togo and Ghana. With its countless deities, animal sacrifice and spirit possession, voodoo — as it’s known to the rest of the world

    If the nation was full of atheist then communist countries would be judged. So the evidence suggest that Haiti was not judged by God.

  4. Some like James lyman believe that in order to warn and rebuke they feel justified in using strong language. I cannot help feel that they use scripture rather than seek to live by it. It is easy to pick a particular word and then because it is found in the Bible to then use it against people, even if it is neither justified or in context. I am persuaded that Mr Lyman uses abusive language against people because he simply does not have the understanding as to what the Bible teaches. Evangelism is more than bulling and throwing verbal abuse at people. It is trying to get alongside people and showing them that Christ is a far more attractive option. If we are called to love out neighbours, then that motivation would indeed be one of love. Love always desires the highest good for another. That good is to know Jesus Christ.

    It is more than shouting and ridiculing a person, but showing that Christ is the right answer. So many people are always looking down; we are to point people to Christ. How can you point people to someone when what you are doing is ridiculing and maligning people as being so much dirt under someone’s shoes? Therefore as evangelist they have a responsibility to be the face of Christ to the heathen. In us should be the love that they would hope to see in Christ. In us should be the face of the one who with outstretched arms cried forgive them they don’t know what they are doing.

    If the methods we us to get peoples attention is no better than the worlds, then we have missed it. If in seeking to share Christ we meet with others with the same hatred they show us. Then we become no better than they. We have to show that we have a better way and a better option that those who would malign and hate.

    Mat 5: 38-44 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have [thy] cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, BLESS THEM THAT CURSE YOU, DO GOOD TO THEM THAT HATE YOU, AND PRAY FOR THEM WHICH DESPITEFULLY USE YOU, AND PERSECUTE YOU;

    Math 5: 45 THAT YE MAY BE THE CHILDREN OF YOUR FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

    We are called to bless those who hate us..Do good unto them and pray for them. Now where in all this is verbally abusing people as they walk by?

    Some would say that they have to rebuke people as harshly as they can, but if that is all that we do we have failed. Even some snake oil salesman can do the same, Or some drunker staggering out of a pub that has missed his last bus home.

    Luk 24: 27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

    Acts 14: 7 And there they preached the gospel.
    Acts 14: 25 And when they had preached the word in Perga, they went down into Attalia:

    Acts 14: 3 Long time therefore abode they speaking boldly in the Lord, which gave testimony unto the word of his grace, and granted signs and wonders to be done by their hands.

    Everywhere they went they preached the gospel. Now look they gave testimony unto his grace. Grace does not involve making people feel little so that a man may feel he is superior. The gospel seeks to persuade a man of his sin. He seeks to persuade a man of his wickedness. He presents to him both the love of God and the justice of God, and of God’s anger and his mercy. At all times the evangelist seeks to move the heart of the sinner towards God. He stands as a sign post always pointing a man to God.

    1 Tim 3: 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

  5. It must be said that UC MINISTRIES, As a ministry we are not against street preaching. Having done street preaching myself it is vitaly important form of ministry. However it is how some are going about this ministry which is so disturbing. They lack wisdom, grace, and they underrmine the preaching of sincere evengelist. As illustrated they seem to take great delight in mocking and abusing others.

    Here are a few testimonies from street preaching that appear to bare the right fruit.

    December 11, 2009 Paul Trout and Mary Penner arrived at RMCW after one car had already arrived. Soon a man and his daughter came out of the mill. Mary called out to them and they cmae over to talk. The father shared that his other daughter was there for an abortion. He said that he had been praying that the Lord would stop this. He said he was a Christian and that he couldn’t stay inside because it felt evil. After talking with him for a while he went back inside and brought his daughter Amelia out to talk with Mary and Paul. She said that she was afraid her husband would leave her and take her 2 year old son if she didn’t have an abortion. After a long talk about the consequences of abortion and encouraging her to “trust in the Lord,” she finally said, “I’m not going to do it!” She hugged Mary and Paul and her father went inside to get her money back.
    A short time later he came out and said that he had told the woman at the desk that his daughter had changed her mind. He was told that he could not get the money but his daughter would have to come back later to get it. He told her, “No, she’s my daughter and she’s not coming back. What you’re doing is evil and you’re not getting my daughter or my granddaughter.”

    HISTORY OF STREET PREACHING

    Although those who engaged in street preaching were often persecuted, including every one of Jesus’ disciples, who all lost their lives for preaching the Gospel, street preaching continued faithfully throughout history. For a number of years, the church endured great affliction, yet it was not ashamed to rise to the occasion and declare the truth of God’s Word, especially due to the increasing apostasy being perpetuated by false religious establishments.

    Over the past 500 years, a number of notable ministers of the Gospel have engaged in street preaching, both in America and around the world. During the 1500’s, a preacher named William Farel began ministering on the streets, of whom it was said that he “turned every stump and stone into a pulpit, [and] every house, every street, and marketplace into a church.” In the 1600’s, John Bunyan, who is known for penning the classic allegory Pilgrim’s Progress felt the call of God to become a preacher, and thus began to engage in street preaching. He was arrested and jailed a number of times for preaching without a license.

    In the mid-1700’s, a preacher named George Whitfield traveled throughout America and England “preaching in parks and fields … reaching out to people who normally did not attend church.” Large crowds would often gather to hear Whitfield’s sermons, even into the tens of thousands. The well-known preacher John Wesley also began preaching in the streets during this time, and Jonathan Edwards, who is known for his sermon, “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God,” additionally also declared himself to be a strong proponent of street preaching. Edwards exclaimed, “It is the cooping yourselves up in rooms that has damped the work of God, which never was and never will be carried out to any purpose without going into the highways and hedges and compelling men and women to come in.”

    William Booth, the founder of the Salvation Army, began preaching in the streets of England at age 23. In 1852, he became a full-time street preacher after resigning from his other ministerial duties, which he felt too often kept him from his evangelistic work on the streets. Booth once stated, “No sort of defense is needed for preaching outdoors, but it would take a very strong argument to prove that a man who has never preached beyond the walls of his meeting house has done his duty. A defense is required for services within buildings rather than for worship outside of them.” Other well-known street preachers during this time period included Charles Spurgeon and D.L. Moody.

  6. Street Preaching in Salem
    Compare this to the one above. This man is preaching the gospel. He is delivering a sermon. While others may be mocking them, they are not returning mocking with mocking. He is sincerly giving it his best. There is not one hint of using offensive language against the crowd.

    It is interesting that for the james lymans video. The voting for those who have watched it and voted.

    You dislike this video. Ratings for this video (33 total)
    like 3
    dislike 30
    The 30 are those who voted and disliked it

    Ratings for this video (16 total)
    like 14
    dislike 2
    This video was posted in Michael Marcavage street preaching in Salem, Massachusetts on Halloween 2010
    In which case 14 have already made it clear they like it. While this voting system is only a guide. It is clear how many including Christians view these videos.

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